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Post by janosax on Nov 15, 2018 19:04:25 GMT
Hello!!  I've started using my IKM Blueboard pedalboard to control Ableton Live on Windows 10 using Studiomux/iPhone 7 Plus. That works well and is stable enough to be a solution to control Live with that pedalboard which is not W10 BT compatble. I'm used to use Blueboard with Loopy/AB/AUM and VoiceRackFX which is able to change presets with one and only button. I wish to replicate this with Live, using Streambyter/Studiomux. Here are my needs: 1- First and second Blueboard buttons plays C3 and D3, Ableton manage only single tap, Loopy is able to manage single/double/hold taps. So here I need the script able to doing that too, to trigger some audio/midi loops in Live. As Ableton only reads CC, PC and midi notes for remote, first button C3 should gives for example: single tap C3, double tap, C4, hold C5. Same thing for second button D3 >> single tap D3, double tap D4, hold D5. So these are 6 actions with 2 buttons. (in Loopy double taps gives fade/in/out). 2- Third button E3 should control Ableton Live Looper device, with single tap giving E3 for record/overdub, double tap E4 for stop, E5 hold for clear loop. 3- In Ableton, I use Effect Rack chains to alternate between 4 custom presets of the same pitching effect. This is my main issue, as I have to use the 4 Blueboard buttons to select them, not leaving any buttons for other actions. What I need is this: fourth F3 button single tap gives F3, then G3, then A3, then B3 and cycling that, double tap gives F3, then B3, then A3, then G3 and cycling that. This is how I use VoicerackFX on my iOS setup, except I can only do single tap/forward presets cycling. Summup: 1st button C3 : single tap C3, double tap C4, hold C5 2nd button D3: single tap D3, double tap D4, hold D5 3rd button E3: single tap E3, double tap E4, hold E5 4rth button F3: single tap cycling >> F3, G3, A3, B3 >> and double tap cycling the other way >> F3, B3, A3, G3 >> Long question short: is this possible with Streambyter? And... I dont think I will be able to write the script, is it still possible to receive some help/support writing it? A similar/alternative script could be useful on iOS too, as it could extend my iPhone only setup capabilities. Thanks in advance for answer/help. Jean |
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Post by nic on Nov 15, 2018 19:36:16 GMT
Hi janosax , >> Long question short: is this possible with Streambyter?I have some code somewhere for detecting hold, single tap, double tap and triple tap on the BlueBoard which I produced for a customer using MidiFire. I expect this can be re-purposed for you. Making one of the actions cycle through 4 events is no problem. However, this relies on the one feature that is available in MidiFire but not in the StreamByter AU I'm afraid (the inject feature). I also think that the code relies on the later BlueBoard firmware where it can send note events (original firmware is just CC and PC). From what you say, you are running this firmware since you are referring to note events coming from the BlueBoard. >> And... I dont think I will be able to write the script, is it still possible to receive some help/support writing it?If you're happy to use MidiFire standalone to receive events from the BB and send to Ableton via 'mux and you're running the BlueBoard firmware that sends notes then I will post up a scene for you. Will probably take a few goes to get right. Let me know if this is of interest. You could run MidiFire either on iOS or the mac - your choice. EDIT: found the code - it's a year old, so will need to familiarise myself with it again!Regards, Nic. |
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Post by janosax on Nov 15, 2018 20:08:55 GMT
Hi Nic and many thanks for your quick reply and help!! No problem I've just buyed Midifire :-) Not such an issue as Studiomux don't support AU midi, so this setup needed Audiobus. I suppose Midifire/Studiomux will be more minimalist and stable as Studiomux will not host anything and will just route midi to Ableton Live / W10 laptop. Could be useful the day I get a MAC too. My Blueboard is always set in BTLE mode 2 which uses midi notes, with last firmware. I'm really interested by triple tap too. In fact that could be useful to have single/double/triple/hold giving one note actions on all 4 buttons, except fourth F3 button which could do cycling notes forward/backward with single/double taps for presets, and triple/hold taps giving single notes for additional actions. Also, I'm interested by your initial code with single/double/triple/hold actions for my iOS only setup :-) If you're interested, here is the musical context with a recent track played/recorded live in one take using Loopy/AUM/AB/VoicerackFX and Blueboard: Soundcloud Saxanator live versionHere is a version made with Ableton Live on laptop, no live stuff but more traditionnal DAW work in multiple takes: So what I wish is to use my Blueboard to doing similar live music with Ableton and great VST pitching effects. I also need two working live setups, this can be useful for example on stage, for rescue. Thanks again! |
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Post by nic on Nov 15, 2018 20:23:24 GMT
Hi janosax , No problem. I will work on this tomorrow (European time) for you. MidiFire is pretty stable and very lightweight - running it standalone should have hardly any effect on the machine's performance. In fact the opposite, because in an AU environment, the plugin is continuously called 86 times per second with AU bridging. In a standalone environment, the app gets triggered only when there is a MIDI event and then (in MidiFire's case) the event is processed directly using an engine written in high performance C code. (probably more than you wanted to know) To make the scene as plug'n'play as possible, would you mind running up MidiFire with the BlueBoard connected and adding the BlueBoard port to the MidiFire canvas (use top left '+' button) then post a screenshot. I will then make sure to match the port name. ;-) The scene will have the BlueBoard tap/hold detection code in one separate Stream Byter module and your custom mods in a separate module. If you want to use triple taps then it's a case of modifying the custom module (which will be commented so should make that easy). NB. I realised you are running 'mux and Ableton on windows, so forget my comment about the mac version;-) Regards, Nic. |
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Post by janosax on Nov 15, 2018 21:13:24 GMT
Thanks for AU/Standalone explanation, yes this is what I need!! And thanks for being that fast too :-) Here is the screenshot: ![]() ![]()  |
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Post by janosax on Nov 15, 2018 21:33:39 GMT
Just seen that video on Audiobus Forum, hey that’s crazy!!!
I can see lot of Midifire applications here for my sax stuff...
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Post by nic on Nov 16, 2018 12:07:09 GMT
Hi janosax , So, I thought I would update the firmware of my own BlueBoard to make absolutely sure this works, but tried on 3 different windows machines and all failed differently. So I gave up, and we will have to hope I managed to get this right without a BTLE BlueBoard. Attached is a scene file that you can install into MidiFire and load up. In theory, it should have the correct port for the BlueBoard, but if that port is transparent looking then you just need to delete it and add in from the menu as you did previously and connect it up to 'BlueBoard Ctl' module. You should add your output port for 'mux onto the canvas and connect the 'Janosax Custom' module to that. I think I have implemented all your logic correctly. I was able to test that each button/tap combination delivered the correct remapping, but we will have to see! I did remove an Event Monitor from the scene that I used for debugging, but you could always add one of those to the canvas to see the actual MIDI messages being generated if you like. Please let me know how you get on. Regards, Nic. Attachments:Scene-Janosax.mfr (3 KB)
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Post by janosax on Nov 16, 2018 14:50:22 GMT
Wow thanks Nic!!! That really works well. I’ve used rtpMidi this time, using Reseau output, so I don’t need anything else than Midifire running on the iPhone and I don’t need any wire. I also plan to use an iConnectAudio interface. And no problem at all with your Blueboard port!! I can use first and second button to toggle 6 loops, third button to control Live Looper device with record/overdub, quantized stop, and clear, and fourth button to control effect rack chain presets triggering flawlessly. I’m really happy Now I just need to know where I can set the time delay to do a double tap, as it’s too short to do it confortably fast enough by foot. I suppose it’s in BlueBoard Ctrl rules? And if I want to enable triple tap I suppose I need to add some lines in janosax custom under # triple taps (ch5): N4 3C = X0 ?? N4 3E = X0 ?? N4 40 = X0 ?? Also is there a specific setting for triple tap time delay? And I wish to use triple tap and hold tap for fourth button too, as it will be my FXS button, to enable/disable some effects like chorus/delay. What I need to do is only to add lines for fourth button under # triple taps (ch5) and # hold (ch2)? Can you give me them too? And last question, if I want to do another custom preset for iOS without round robin on fourth button, with same taps settings on all buttons, what should I modify? Have you got a link for midi notes codification? I’m trying to learn Midifire :-) Again many thanks to you, that’s kind of a game changer for me  Jean Blueboard/Midifire assignments in Live, I’ve used dummy clips on the left for effect rack chain presets triggering via round robin :-)  |
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Post by nic on Nov 16, 2018 15:12:38 GMT
Hi janosax , Yes, the time delay is set right at the top of the BlueBoard Ctl script: # k0: timeout in 10ms units
ASS K0 = 05You just change that 05 to something else (05 == 50ms timeout) - but make sure you use a hex value; 100ms would be 0A for example. Do consider that upping the timeout will increase the latency of everything as the script has to figure out after the delay has expired whether you did a single, double, triple or hold action. Just play around with this value until you get the optimal setting. Don't forget to press 'Install Rules' after you change the value (and save the scene too). If it is not clear from the sentence above, this delay value is the same for all actions (single, double, triple or hold). So to program values for the triple tap: Use this handy table to get the hex numbers for the notes you wish to send. So, using your convention, triple taps could send C6, D6, E6 and F6 notes as follows: # triple taps (CH5)
N4 3C = X0 60
N4 3E = X0 62
N4 40 = X0 64
N4 41 = X0 65I have underlined the hex note values above that I pulled from the table. triple taps are identified as coming in on channel 5, so that is why we have N4 at the beginning of each rule (4 is channel 5 since in internal MIDI channel 1 is '0') >> And last question, if I want to do another custom preset for iOS without round robin on fourth button, what should I modify?Right, so you could *remove* all that stuff from '# round robin handling" down to the bottom to remove it entirely, but you could just put a '#' in front of the line near the bottom: # ASS M0 = MT KL0which will disable the round robin rewrite. You will need to add in rules for single, double and hold for button D which is hex note 41 - essentially reproduce that 4th line in the triple tap section I typed above to the bottom of the single, double and hold sections but change the N4 to the same N value is the other rules in that section and of course the hex number of the note you want to trigger. Ping me if that makes no sense. Regards, Nic. |
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Post by janosax on Nov 16, 2018 16:32:21 GMT
Thanks!! That worked perfectly for the Ableton scene, triple tap hold etc.
For triple tap 90/100ms latency seems to be ok, but it’s a bit long for single tap.
I will try to do a parallel routing for single taps with another BlueBoard input going directly to output, with another separate script only for round robin etc... I think I will perhaps need to make separate scripts for achieving that I let you know if I‘ll need your help (I’ll certainly do) :-)
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Post by janosax on Nov 17, 2018 0:04:04 GMT
Hello Nic I’ve attached my modified file with triple tap added to C3/D3/E3 buttons and triple tap/hold added to F3 button. So again that works really well but latency needs to be improved, as ~90/100ms is ok for triple tap by foot but not for quick single taps for Looper quick overdubs/soloing alternation, and also quick presets cycling through round robin rules as I also need to switch quickly between pitch processed saxes, at least with ascending single taps. What I’ve tried almost three hours but I don’t have skills yet to do it myself yet is this: 1- Blueboard > Streambyter 1 > output Single taps C3/D3/E3 giving C3/D3/E3 F3 > blocked giving nothing No latency 2- BlueBoard > Streambyter 2 > output Single tap F3 ascending round robin giving F3/G3/A3/B3 C3/D3/E3 > blocked giving nothing No latency 3- BlueBoard > Streambyter 3 + 4 > output Latency 50/100 ms Double taps C3/D3/E3 giving C4/D4/E4 Triple taps C3/D3/E3/F3 giving C5/D5/E5/F5 Hold taps C3/D3/E3/F3 giving C6/D6/E6/F6 Double tap F3 descending round robin giving F3/B3/A3/G3 All single taps for C3/D3/E3/F3 > blocked giving nothing Let me know if there are some errors in my logic, and if it’s possible to do that. Thanks in advance for helping. |
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Post by nic on Nov 17, 2018 11:10:38 GMT
Hi janosax, I will look at this for you next week; I am away for the weekend. Regards, Nic. |
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Post by janosax on Nov 17, 2018 16:57:14 GMT
Ok no problem and thanks.
Also I’ve forgotten to mention that I also use expression pedals with the BlueBoard as it has two jacks ports. So I need two CC to pass through Streambyters modules.
Have a nice weekend.
Edit: also I don’t know if the need for lower latency will be achievable, as there will be always a need for the rules to listen for other taps before validating one, two or three taps. Hold is different it happens when not off don’t come. In Loopy app, fade in/out double tap is different as it’s a modifier of toggle play first tap, it’s built in the app and not a classic midi double tap triggering. I have to see if I can adapt to 0A delay or perhaps I’ll need to forget about triple tap and keep double tap/hold with 05 delay.
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Post by janosax on Nov 19, 2018 0:05:14 GMT
I’m pretty happy as I was able to do the pedal stuff myself, using protocol filter devices. I’ve created one to filter all notes and another to filter CC31 which is sent by BlueBoard (I don’t know why but perhaps is it for blue leds? Must be this...). So that works perfectly, I have my pedal working without any latency. Could you please check if this is the best way to do with attached files? In fact all of this was pretty fun to do and makes me want to really learn MidiFire Let me also know if something can be done to improve single taps latency but I’m not sure on that. Thanks. Scene-Janosax double hold pedal Ableton.mfr (4.63 KB) Scene-Janosax triple hold pedal Ableton.mfr (4.69 KB) |
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Post by janosax on Nov 19, 2018 0:07:57 GMT
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