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Post by triwolf on Mar 18, 2014 9:37:07 GMT
Hi all,
i have an issue which i already posted in other forums. I found Midibridge in the Appstore and thought it might be able to resolve the problem. Reading through this forum i have the feeling that there is some great knowledge about MIDI and related issues:
I normally use Cubasis for Recording in our Band room. I did connect a Yamaha DTX 700 Drumset via MIDI 5-pin to my Focusrite Scarlett 6i6. The Scarlett connects to iPad Air 64GB (iOS 7.06) via USB Cable / Apple (Orginal) USB Lightning Connector.
When the Drummer now hits any Drumpad, Cubasis plays the related Sound. Up to now everything is fine, but:
If the Drummer is playing a triplet, only the first hit will sound. Also if i record the triplet there is only one MIDI note in the track.
In short, if a pad is heat twice in a short time, the second hit is not received as MIDI Signal (Quantize is off course off).
I tried the same setup with Music Studio and have the same issue. I then tested with Garageband and Drums XD. With these Apps everything works perfect. All hits of the Drumpads are played correctly in these Apps.
To exclude any hardware problem i installed Cubasis on the iPad mini of my wife which is running on iOS 7.1. Problem with the DTX was also on the iPad mini.
To figure out if the Scarlett 6i6 could be the root cause, i connected the DTX Midi output to one of those USB to Midi 5pin Cables. Result was similar, so the Scarlett is unlikely causing the problem.
Finally i was doing a complete Factory reset on the DTX 700 to ensure that no weird setting in the DTX is the reason. After the reset the problem did still exist.
I would exclude any Hardware-Issue but why are two apps running fine and two others having similar issue.
Using the MIDI Signal for recording the drums is essential to me, so i was thinking about if Midibridge could “standardize” the signal to be correctly processed by Cubasis or Music Studio?
Final important information: I made recordings half a year ago with DTX 700, iPad 3 (iOS 6.12), Behringer iStudio and Cubasis 1.6 and everything worked well.
Thanks to everybody who reads through and tries to help.
Wolfgang
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nic
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Post by nic on Mar 18, 2014 9:55:25 GMT
Hi Wolfgang, We need to see what is being sent to understand what is going on. My guess is it is something to do with the order in which note on/offs are being sent which Cubasis is not happy about. It may indeed be possible to rectify the MIDI messages with the Stream Byter. Could I suggest that you download a midi monitor app for your iPad. There are the free ones like Midi Monitor or midiwrench or my own MidiVision which is not free but will do the job too. Load up the monitor app of your choice and then play an offending triplet. Post back the output of the monitor app and then we'll see what can be done. Regards, Nic. |
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Post by triwolf on Mar 18, 2014 11:12:12 GMT
Thanks for your quick reply Nic! I will do when i am back home tonight.
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Post by triwolf on Mar 18, 2014 19:11:44 GMT
Post back the output of the monitor app and then we'll see what can be done. Regards, Nic.  Is that sufficient? I am not a MIDI Expert but the order of the messages looks strange to me. Should they not be Note on/Note off, Note on/Note off, Note on/Note off? Let me you know if you need further or different information. Cheers Wolfgang |
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nic
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Post by nic on Mar 18, 2014 20:08:57 GMT
That isn't unexpected. I would say the DTX700 has a built-in note off timeout which is longer than the time between hits of the rapid fire triplet.
Your 3 note ons get sent first and then the note offs afterwards. Cubasis may not be happy receiving things like that, although it should be able to deal with it.
I have a simple Stream Byter ruleset for you to try. This requires you to place MidiBridge between the scarlett and cubasis, so in MidiBridge there should be a connection (green line) between scarlett on left and cubasis on right. In cubasis ensure that the only MIDI port is is listening to is MidiBridge for the track you are recording into (change from All MIDI ports).
Touch the 'beaker' icon on the scarlett (left) port and select the Stream Byter accessory arrow. Press On and paste the following into the text box:
# block all notes off on CH10
89 = XX +B
Press 'Install Rules' and the Done & Done.
That will now block off all those note offs altogether which may just be enough to satisfy cubasis.
Let me know if this works for you. If it doesn't I have a few more things that we can try out.
Regards, Nic.
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Post by triwolf on Mar 18, 2014 21:13:49 GMT
I will try this one and let you know when done. Will that impact also the signals of other Midi Devices connected via the scarlett to cubasis?
Edit: Tried this, but with this setup Cubasis does not receive Midi Signals. No matter if the filter is applied or not. Question above is clear now as the rule is only for channel 10
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nic
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Post by nic on Mar 18, 2014 21:58:38 GMT
Yes, sorry. In Cubasis track routing select 'Virtual MIDI' and not MidiBridge.
Regards, Nic.
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Post by nic on Mar 18, 2014 22:13:05 GMT
Also just tested my ruleset with cubasis. It won't work, but instead try this:
# cubasis triplet fix #2
99 = 8X +C
That worked for me. cubasis is not happy if it sees no note off at all, but doesn't mind seeing 2 note offs.
What the above does is immediately send the note off after the note on.
Regards, Nic.
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Post by triwolf on Mar 19, 2014 19:09:32 GMT
Also just tested my ruleset with cubasis. It won't work, but instead try this: # cubasis triplet fix #2
99 = 8X +CThat worked for me. cubasis is not happy if it sees no note off at all, but doesn't mind seeing 2 note offs. What the above does is immediately send the note off after the note on. Regards, Nic. Strike! This works. Does this ruleset add some latency? Great App and awesome support from you, Nic. Thanks a lot Wolfgang |
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Post by nic on Mar 19, 2014 20:03:09 GMT
Hi Wolfgang,
Yes, there will be some slight latency (there is a price for everything), probably about 1ms or so but I think you would be hard pressed to detect it even if you were Yukihiro Takahashi as virtual CoreMIDI is extremely fast compared to normal hardware MIDI. Because all the drums are passing through the same path they will still be the same relative to each other though.
Also, I may not have fully explained why this works. When I was testing I found that if Cubasis receives a note on for a particular sound it will not sound that note again until it has received a note off. So, from your MIDI monitor triplet capture, Cubasis sees 3 notes on, sounds the first, then ignores the other two. After that it receives the 3 notes off which means it will sound that note again at the next strike.
The Stream Byter ruleset adds a note off to follow the note on immediately so cubasis will not 'close the gate'.
Regards, Nic.
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Post by triwolf on Mar 20, 2014 10:15:14 GMT
Do you think the HiHat Signal will still be okay with that Stream byter rule (Pressing the Pedal will cut off sound of open HiHat)? I don't have the full Drumset at home, just a Pad and the DTX Controller so cannot try this now.
If you don't know, not a big problem i can test on Sunday.
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nic
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Post by nic on Mar 20, 2014 10:55:14 GMT
It will depend upon what MIDI message pressing the pedal sends and what cubasis will handle.
Cubasis doesn't seem to honour the note off in that given we are sending a note off along with the note on, the entire sample is still played rather than being cut off.
Ideally pressing the pedal should cut the currently playing hit-hat sample and trigger a closed hi-hat tap to tie up the note.
I just tried a little experiment and it seems that if the open hi-hat sample is playing and you hit a closed hi-hat the open one gets cut which is as we want, so my feeling is that this will work.
If the pedal message doesn't have the same effect for some reason, then we could program the Stream Byter to forcefully remap the pedal close message to a closed hi-hat, but my guess is that it won't be necessary.
Regards, Nic.
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Post by triwolf on Mar 23, 2014 23:26:23 GMT
Hi Nic,
we did test the streambyter rule now with the full DTX Drumset and it worked like a charm! Thanks again for your great support.
Drummer happy, Guitar player (that''s me) happy and the rest of the band happy
Cheers
Wolfgang
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